Show Transcript for Episode 237: A 49 Year-Old Virgin and Other Mailbag Questions

Announcer 00:00
The following content is not suitable for children.

Laurie Watson 00:02
We’re going to talk about some mailbag questions today. We’ve got quite a few. So listen in.

00:09
Yeah.

Laurie Watson 00:12
Welcome to foreplay radio couples in sex therapy. I’m Laurie Watson, your sex therapist.

George Faller 00:17
And I’m George Faller, your couples therapist,

00:20
and we are passionate about talking about sex and helping you develop a way to talk to each other.

George Faller 00:26
Our mission is to help our audience develop a healthier relationship to sex that integrates the mind, the heart and the body.

00:36
How was your father’s day?

George Faller 00:38
Pretty good. Nice little a family hike together.

00:41
Oh, that’s nice. That sounds fun until we

George Faller 00:45
kids complaining it’s too hot. I don’t want to walk any further.

00:49
Exactly. wife wants

George Faller 00:50
to keep walking further there. We have a little fight in the trails as a family.

Laurie Watson 00:58
It sounds incredibly Normal. All right, it’s my son’s actually made dinner for my husband and invited us over. So it was very fun. That’s pretty cool. Yeah. When they grow up, that’s a good thing. So we’ve got a question here from actually as a comment, George about some of the things that we talked about on our black lives matter episode. And I just thought, since we’re gonna post this right away, it was important to have him speak about it. And he says, I’m a loyal listener. I’ve listened to all your podcasts even before George came on. As a second host, actually, George, you’re my therapist. But I am also an African American

George Faller 01:39
comment on that

Laurie Watson 01:42
guy. I’m also an American, African American male. 49 years old. I’m currently listening to your 611 20 episode on race. What caught my attention was George’s position writing as a therapist, I would have expected you to apply the same compassion to the looters. As to the four police officers, if I remember correctly, you had a personal relationship with public servants. Yes, George was a police officer and a fireman. You seem to understand the reasons for turning off your emotions apply the same emotional framework to a demographic with a history of being treated less than human. Think of the number of peaceful protests and the history of requests for change, specifically African Americans have done for the last 400 years. It’s not just the 17 year old kid that feels like Enough is enough. Watch Trevor Noah’s YouTube video. Any of you who don’t know who that is? He’s great. He’s on YouTube. So I thought, you know, this is an important conversation and that we should talk a little bit about it.

George Faller 02:47
Absolutely. I first thing I want to start off with is just appreciating how important it is to get feedback. And that’s how we all continue to grow and I think I listen, his comment is, is really fair. And as a therapist I always start off with. I love the Irish saying everybody focuses on the drinking and not the thirst. Like, what is it about these kind of behaviors that might not be working? What’s the need that that’s kind of driving that? You know, we do this all the time in family therapy. Why is a kid acting out in a couple relationship? What’s going on? Why are people heading in these different directions? It’s never that simple, right? They usually are some good reasons. It doesn’t mean they’re not cause for these behaviors. Yeah. Right. So

Laurie Watson 03:41
I mean, I think when there’s systemic injustice right in, and you feel like, there’s no logic to the craziness that is oppressing you acting out and being really enraged. I mean, sometimes is It’s understandable I, I thought about our own American history, the Boston Tea Party, you know that that was destruction of tea merchants and, you know, hurt those tea merchants. And I mean, it was it was really a plan to draw attention to the injustice is of the taxes. Sometimes it makes sense. I certainly have been in blind rages myself occasionally when, when the system doesn’t seem to listen, whatever system it is family or right now my board. You know, I mean, you just, you can be so enraged that sometimes you want to draw attention to the craziness of what you’re living with.

George Faller 04:42
Absolutely. And that’s why we all got to do our work. And we got to have conversations where people can kind of challenge us on our blind spots, right that I need to work with people who can’t see the value in looting. Right? It goes against all the others. I use, but certainly if I was sitting with a black American who was part of the looting, you know, as Trevor Noah talks about, they don’t want to engage in this social contract because it’s not treating them to fairly, especially when the police officers who are in charge are breaking the rules. I follow the rules that you know that that mindset that says I just, I don’t want to be a part of the system. And that’s a way of expressing that. So there’s a sanity

Laurie Watson 05:28
about the rules, because Yeah, I agree.

George Faller 05:34
And I think it’s important, like I don’t think about too often. I was having a conversation with one of my black colleagues said, I never really think about not feeling safe. For the most part. I always feel safe. And that’s, I think some of the privilege that we I just assume most people have and that’s unfortunately not accurate. Right, and how do we help Do we recognize other people’s burdens that they carry? And how do we do our, our work to help with that? Right? Because if we don’t do anything, if we don’t have these conversations, we are being complicit in a system that, you know, doesn’t doesn’t recognize the negative impact on others.

Laurie Watson 06:18
Absolutely. I agree. I, I, you know, have a smidge of understanding as a female. Just throughout my work career. I wasn’t always a therapist, but you know, being underpaid, really, because I was female. And I mean, I understand that there’s and I don’t feel safe often as a woman just walking out to my parking lot things like that. But I can’t imagine and what it’s like to be driving along the road and pulled over really just because you’re black. You know that that just that’s there’s a craziness there. I I sent a message to one of my black friends. It’s like, be careful. Be really Be really careful. I mean, it’s just like the anger and the hatred that is now so apparent. It makes it feels to me like it makes it more dangerous for them.

George Faller 07:11
Right. And this feels very similar to conversations around sex ratio conversations. People are almost set up the failure around it. Mm hmm. Right. It’s like, if I’m black, and I want to have this conversation, I’m gonna have some anger. Mm hmm. That’s just built into Hey, you know, I need to speak up otherwise, no one’s going to hear me and I shouldn’t be the one having to speak up people should be trying to engage me in these conversations that already build an unfair position and start in the conversation. But then if you’re a white person listening, who you know is just trying to live your life and as good person and they you know, is not explicit with any of these acts. It’s hard to not get defensive when somebody’s coming at you with kind of angry tone and using words that you don’t you haven’t done your work with, so you don’t understand white supremacy. Or privilege or systemic racism and you know, these these words just elicit I don’t want to get into an argument. So I don’t want to engage, and then that creates the safe distance that we’re seeing in so many couples, so Mm hmm.

Laurie Watson 08:12
Absolutely. Well, thank you for writing in. Appreciate it. We appreciate an ongoing conversation with those of you who are listening. Thanks.

George Faller 08:24
And with these ongoing conversations, I mean, I think the mission of our podcasts is to get people to have success in difficult conversations. So so many people don’t want to have these sexual conversations. And we know where that leads. Why would it be any different with race? So yes, please keep these comments coming in. It’s, it really is how we keep stretching and growing and finding deeper connection.

Laurie Watson 08:52
So I have another question. She and it’s from a woman who is a 49 year old virgin. She said, I chose To stay a virgin until married for religious reasons, and I have yet to marry. So that’s the story. I’ve dated several men in my life and I don’t feel like any of them got away more like I dodged the bullet, haha. Anyway, my question is related to this. Back when I was younger I was insanely horny. Now that I’m older and probably mature, not so much. So I’ve been dating a great guy for the last three years. He’s very attractive and super sweet and I like being affectionate. But no sparks. This has him concerned. And me too. He can tell. So I’m worried that I’ve waited too long and maybe now I met a puzzle and lost my mojo. Or is it I just don’t feel chemistry for him. How do I know we seem very compatible in almost every way. Besides this. Got any thoughts? George? It’s a

George Faller 09:54
it’s a million dollar question. Right? How do you how do you get your mojo back? How do you get the sparks flying? I mean, I think it’s really healthy that, that they’ve obviously had a conversation around that. Mm hmm. And I guess I would be curious, let’s get into the details. You know, what does Kissin look like between them? what’s what’s before they even start anything romantic? I mean, is there just this kind of friendship and easiness? Or there’s there’s kind of some flirting and some this mystery of mischievious actions like just trying to get a sense of the overall dynamics. I think so often we’re rushing right into the act itself. And, you know, he or she is a virgin. So you know, that that four plays are going to be hugely important. Yeah. What does that look like?

Laurie Watson 10:42
Yeah, and I think because of her commitment and her age, obviously, there’s had to have been quite a bit of shut off in her right. And I did actually corresponded a little bit more with her and I think that there is some anxiety too and that shut off. So First I would want to know, you know, how, how much sex are they doing? You know, she’s still a virgin. So they’re not having intercourse. Does she allow any sexual contact at all? Or is it just kissing? Is there anything that she allows to arouse herself? But I think it’s an important question right? If you don’t feel sparks before you marry, how can you kind of be assured that sex will be good? So let’s come back and talk a little bit more about this 49 year old virgin after the break. Jordan George success and vulnerability calm your new training site, you have a new module.

George Faller 11:43
Yes, so excited about this Laurie module to working with secondary emotion anger, withdrawal, protection, and blocks the way people really, for good reasons, put up these detours in session and most of the time it throws therapists off and therapists start to feel like They’re failing and get really frustrated, judgmental problem solve, and they miss the beautiful opportunities blocks to really pivot and become flexible and really, it’s the process telling us where we need to go. We just need to learn how to embrace these blocks. So I’m so excited about this module. So please, therapists listening, you want to get better at your craft. Sign up and join us

Laurie Watson 12:20
George’s new module in success and vulnerability, calm check it out, talking about secondary emotions and blocks.

George Faller 12:28
Boone, North Carolina, August 28 29th and 30th a weekend up in the mountains to talk about sex. Do we get any better than that, Laurie?

Laurie Watson 12:38
This is for therapists and it’s not for couples yet, although we are kind of in our mind’s eye thinking about how we can help our couples who are listening in a more intense way with a retreat. But this is a class that we’re doing for therapists so if you would like to check out George or my site or for play radio, we will direct you to that training in Boone, North Carolina in August.

George Faller 13:00
Come join us.

Laurie Watson 13:01
I’m doing a Patreon live on July 10, Friday night and I’m pushing it back because I think a lot of people could not join our first one. This is going to be at 8pm. Eastern Standard Time. For those who are our patrons. Please come and join me.

George Faller 13:18
Welcome back. Let’s follow up. I mean, again, this question of no sparks. I guess I want to have a two part process. I want to figure out well, when she was younger, and she was horny, what did turn her on? Yeah. What what what are those things right, if she can tap into that, and then discover that with her partner now that I think we could start heading down that healthy road. Right. But if she could identify those things, and she can’t have it with her partner now, because there’s no chemistry then that I think means something different.

Laurie Watson 13:55
Yeah, I I really think that there’s an internal show. lockdown that needs to, she needs to be awakened. She’s never had sex. She’s potentially never had orgasm. I don’t know. I I do know from my own experience once this guy became my first boyfriend, and I really did not think he was attractive. I just wasn’t that attracted to him. He kissed me and boom, it was all over. I thought it was really attractive. I mean, so she does think this guy is attractive, but she doesn’t let herself go very far with him. So, you know, if you don’t let your body become aroused, if that’s cut off, then how, how are the sparks going to fly? You know, how do you how do you let that happen? I just I kind of believe that sex is something that can grow, that it doesn’t have to start from a hot point. I mean, millions of years right people got married, had sex, didn’t even know each other. It was arranged marriages and they became sexual and had enough chemistry or at least connections actually to, you know, continue the human race. So I mean, it doesn’t have to always start with, you know, wow, you’re just so awesome. And I’m so attracted to you. I, I think I think I need to know more about, like you said maybe what what has she thought about that makes her horny and filled with desire and and how far are they going? You know, does she ever get aroused? This? There’s a rigidity, right? I mean, when we’re really rigid like this 49 years old and never done it. That rigidity is protective of us for some reason. And so I think of that as an issue that needs to be overcome more than this guy is not the right guy. Look at your 49 years old, you need a partner. you’re attracted to him. He’s, you know, he’s attractive and you get along I just can’t imagine this can’t work out.

George Faller 15:58
Well. be played a little devils have it. Okay, go ahead. Well, I mean, I think that she’s staying true to her values for so long shows how important this is. Right. And I think what she’s looking for with the Mojo in the sparks is pretty cool. I mean, she’s got a definition of healthy sex that that seems bank. Right, the court, she’s looking for high quality in the sex. And I just think that she’s having this conversation. She’s waited so long. You know, this is a really important thing. I totally agree with trying to understand what turns her on more. And just knowing if this guy can do that, while also making room for the possibility that there isn’t chemistry for whatever reason, He’s good looking and the nice guy and all those great things, but sometimes if the chemistry is not there, right, and you’re working hard To find that chemistry, and I think if she does that work and she explores what turns her on, and she’s doing all the things she needs to do in this relationship, but yet there still isn’t those sparks, then that’s also okay to look for someone else.

Laurie Watson 17:15
She’s been with him for three years, though, George.

George Faller 17:19
Well, again, both of them are gonna deserve a healthy sex life. Absolutely. And if they’re doing all this work, and they can’t find it, what are you going to do? Change them to each other for the rest of their lives? with poor quality sex?

Laurie Watson 17:36
No, I think there’s, it’s not if he can do it for her though. I think it’s Can she allow him to do it for her? I mean, can she let go in some way that she can let him in. Figuratively and truly

George Faller 17:55
Well, this is the dynamics is he also so gun shy and cautious that he’s not I mean, this isn’t her problem. So right there, we’re in a relationship together. And there’s obviously something he’s really concerned. I also want to know how that concerns impacted him. How was he showing up with his sexual energies? Right? What are the brakes that are really stopping him from from being

Laurie Watson 18:17
true? Very true. A lot of times I, you know, we see vaginismus patients, that’s a woman who she literally can’t be penetrated. And oftentimes the man is really understanding about that, you know, and this is slightly different than our faith reason, but he never pushes her. But the problem is often that his sexual aggression, for lack of a better word, and it’s not a good word is low. And then once we get her healed, it’s like, he has a DD or I mean, he has a lot of internal conflict inside about coming forward sexually to, it doesn’t look like on the surface, you know, it looks like it’s her problem, but it’s problem. So that’s a good point. I appreciate that. Okay, shall we do take one more?

George Faller 19:05
Yeah, sounds good.

Laurie Watson 19:06
Okay. Hi, Laurie and George. I love you guys and listen to your podcasts all the time. Yay. I never miss. Oh, that’s nice. My issue is two years ago, I found many appropriate, inappropriate text between my husband and a co worker. While they never met outside of work, and we’re never physical. The texts alone were an affair. Two years later, I can still cry about the pain that is still so very real. My problem is that since then I cannot have an orgasm with him. In fact, I’ve lost all desire for him completely. I used to love his body and couldn’t get enough of him but now i’d rather that he not touch me. I’m able to reach orgasm by myself. So I know I’m not broken. I just cannot get past what he did. I’m not sure if it’s because they still work together and I can’t help but think it’s really her he wants and not me. Will this ever go away? Anyway, not sure how much longer I can have sex with him when I would really rather not. Any suggestions would be really appreciated. Thank you. Ah, so painful. Oh my gosh. I mean, this is an unresolved issue between the two of them, right? And her body is saying, I can’t give myself to you. I can’t let go with you because I’m angry

George Faller 20:23
with you, I think big fans of listening to your body. And if your body’s saying stop, then you probably should stop. Because you’re right. This is not resolved. Even as she says, I sit back. I think he still wants her not me. It’s hard to give yourself and let your body go when that’s when there’s a threat response inside your body. Absolutely. So how does how does this couple get that help? To really not just say I’m sorry, and it’s over and stop the actions, but to actually repair the hurt that happened with those actions. Huh,

Laurie Watson 21:01
yeah, I mean this, they have to go and get therapy, right. They haven’t been able to work it out for two years, they haven’t been able to talk about this. My sense is, you know, they need help to work it through. And I mean, I would say, I think it can be worked through, you know, so many people have affairs, and they actually end up with marriages that are stronger, you know, and they find, find more out about each other. It’s impossible, I think, on the front side of that, to believe that because you’re just in so much pain, but the reality is, many people do work this out. And you know, she says, they never touched, they were never physical. You know, it doesn’t really matter. I mean, one of the things I’ve learned as a therapist, it doesn’t matter what actually happened. It’s the betrayal of your partner choosing somebody else, of somehow or another prioritizing somebody else or that fantasies. That love that relationship over you doesn’t matter if they kissed or not kissed or had sex or not had sex. People always say, you know, if only they hadn’t kissed or if only they hadn’t had sex or only they hadn’t had sex twice, you know, it’s like, it doesn’t matter once that line is crossed. There’s so much pain,

George Faller 22:18
right? That’s the new normal. How does a couple create a new story post affair, not try to return to life before the affair happened. She’s saying we had a great sex life. It was easy, but she’s never going to be that same person again. And I think a lot of the times of what’s so hurtful is that the affair reveals parts of your partner that you didn’t realize you see it playing out with the other person. And maybe it was his energy and attacks, and just the kind of way he was playful and he was doing things that he didn’t do with her. And that’s really hard for your nervous system to say, What happened, why did that come out with this other person and not with them? may write it, it changes the game, the landscape is no longer the same. So how do we facilitate that healing that really understands how these parts came out and how those parts can come out in the relationship right in the marriage. Otherwise, it continues to be a threat, even though the actions have stopped, you know, there’s part of her that’s recognizing Wait a second. I don’t see that with me. That part of him that was showing up there, right. Does he still would he rather have that if he didn’t have the kids and everything else? The family in the tropics? Would he rather still have that and that has not been addressed? Mm hmm.

Laurie Watson 23:38
And I think the difficulty here is this man works with this woman still. You know, she was she’s facing this on a daily basis when he goes off to work. Yes, still, Caesar still may have to work with her. And, man, this is so tough in our modern world. Sometimes people do change jobs can change jobs. But other times, you have to find another way to make peace with this. If the person is going to be involved in your life, it’s, it’s really rough.

George Faller 24:09
It is rough. And if she could have confidence that who he is around that old lady shows up to her, it’s a lot easier to trust that he’s not going to look elsewhere. Right. So those are those difficult conversations to head into the details of the affair and what came online. And I know some of that might be hurtful, but the alternative is to never know and be left alone and to with your own imagination, trying to figure it out, which is never really a safe place to be, especially when your partner is still working with the other person. What a terrible circumstance.

Laurie Watson 24:51
Yeah, I think I think it’s possible to work this out though, so please, please get the help that you need maybe a third party therapy. To help you negotiate this, and honor

George Faller 25:02
the good reasons your body doesn’t want to have sex. Yeah, it’s actually quite wise and we appreciate your courage for sharing that. You didn’t ask for this to happen. This was not your fault. And your your body’s communicating that things have to change a bit and we really want to listen to what it say. Yeah,

Laurie Watson 25:22
great. Thanks for listening, y’all.

George Faller 25:24
Keep it hot.

Laurie Watson 25:27
And PS please tune in to our Patreon page so that you can catch the next exclusive episode and our next Facebook Live.

Announcer 25:36
We appreciate you joining us to spread this really important message. calling your questions to the foreplay question voicemail, dial 833. My four play that’s a three three, the number four play and we’ll use the questions for our mailbag episodes. All content is for entertainment purposes only and should not be considered as a substitute for therapy by a licensed clinician or as medical advice from a doctor.

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