What is it exactly that women want? As the conversation of patriarchy and toxic masculinity have buzzed over the past few years (and for good reason) we’re all left scratching our heads navigating this conversation. Join Laurie and George today in this exploratory conversation on masculinity and modern relationships. Spurred from a weekend away with Dr. Laurie’s girlfriends filled with laughter, LOTS of conversation about sex and the lyrics from the song, ‘Cover Me Up’ by pop country star Morgan Wallen we get our topic for today’s show. The song describes a man down on his luck, abusing drugs and alcohol yet taking the woman that he loves with wild abandon. Get the chance to hear how this made Laurie swoon and why other women may be so turned on by clear and direct sexual signals. This is certainly a topic that may heat things up physically with a tad of controversy but one that we think is worth talking about in bedrooms everywhere. We want to hear your thoughts on masculine energy. What does it look like? What does it do for you? When is it too much, too little? Help us engage this topic with some curiosity and openness.
Make sure to pop over to our instagram page @forelay_sextherapypodcast and leave your thoughts in the comments. As always, keep it hot y’all!
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The “Cover Me Up” Song
– Laurie talks about a song called “Cover Me Up” by Morgan Wallace.
– Discusses how the song is about a man who is seen as out of control and wild.
– Despite not wanting to be with a man like that in real life, they find the song sexy.
– George brings up how men may struggle with the fantasy of being wild and out of control in bed.
– Laurie discusses the idea of wild abandonment and the excitement it brings.
The Fantasy of Time
– Laurie mentions a lyric in the song about staying with someone until spring comes and making love for a long time.
– George jokingly mentions the reality of limited time in most bedrooms.
– They discuss the fantasy of having a season of time to take things slow and enjoy each other.
– Laurie acknowledges that time constraints and realism often interfere with this fantasy.
Mixed Messages and Longing
– George mentions the mixed message of wanting a wild partner but also someone who reassures you that you’re enough.
– They discuss how it’s important for partners to express that their partner is enough just as they are.
– Laurie gets emotional, emphasizing how women often struggle with feeling like they’re enough.
– George encourages listeners to hold onto the idea that their partner wants them just as they are.
Taking Time and Valuing Each Other
– Laurie mentions the idea of “staying here till spring” as a sign of having time for each other.
– George remarks that he values efficiency but acknowledges the importance of taking time with a partner.
– Laurie emphasizes the message of having time for your partner and appreciating their bodies.
– Laurie and George wrap up the discussion, acknowledging that not everyone has the luxury of time in their relationships.
– They discuss the significance of feeling valued and loved for who you are.
– Laurie jokingly mentions that it wouldn’t interrupt football season.
– They touch on the idea of sacrificing for others and the importance of feeling appreciated and loved.
Joe Davis – Announcer [00:00:00]:
The following content is not suitable for children.
Laurie Watson [00:00:02]:
So, George, I’m with my girlfriends this weekend, and all we can do is talk about sex. I mean, all we can do is talk about sex. They think we should do a down and dirty sex toy episode. We’ve talked about prostate stimulation, about full body orgasms, about thought orgasms, about how to pleasure your male partner, about about having sex outside of intercourse, about sex with a mask, about BDSM, about sex in the shower, about middle aged female sexual experiences, about freedom and flexibility. We have talked literally now for three days about sex.
George Faller [00:00:42]:
Laurie, you found your peoples. That’s all I can say.
Laurie Watson [00:00:46]:
I have found my people. These are my peoples since I was a kid. We talked about sex when we were kids. I want to talk about something, though, that was politically incorrect, that we all resonated with, and that’s what I want to do this episode on.
George Faller [00:00:58]:
I like it.
Laurie Watson [00:01:01]:
Welcome to foreplay sex therapy. I’m Dr. Laurie Watson, your sex therapist.
George Faller [00:01:06]:
And I’m George Faller, your couples therapist.
Laurie Watson [00:01:08]:
We are here to talk about sex.
George Faller [00:01:10]:
Our mission is to help couples talk about sex in ways that incorporate their body, their mind, and their hearts.
Laurie Watson [00:01:18]:
And we have a little bit of fun doing it.
Laurie Watson [00:01:20]:
George Faller [00:01:20]:
G. Listen and let’s change some relationships. Politically incorrect, laurie, what the heck you’re talking about?
Laurie Watson [00:01:29]:
So there’s this song. It’s called Cover Me Up by Morgan Wallace.
George Faller [00:01:33]:
And Morgan Wallace. He’s huge. I mean, my son’s a New York City boy. It’s his favorite artist. He’s grown his hair like Morgan Wallace, right. Until Morgan Wallace cut off his hair. But he’s certainly a talented dude.
Laurie Watson [00:01:49]:
He is. He’s so talented. And one of his songs it’s his hit song or one of his hit songs is called Cover Me Up. And basically it’s a guy who all of us said we wouldn’t want to be with this man in the song. He’s kind of an addict. He’s out of control and kind of wild and maybe too out of control. So we didn’t really want to be with him. But we found the song still really sexy.
Laurie Watson [00:02:16]:
There’s this part of it where he says, I don’t know, some night in Richmond, and he tears off her dress, and it sounds like he’s drunk. We all said, still sexy. Still sexy to be with somebody who’s, like, out of control for you and just wants you. You’re laughing.
George Faller [00:02:38]:
I’m laughing because I could just imagine so many husbands trying to say I say, what the hell is wrong with you? What are you doing that for? I think their fantasy, it sounds great until it’s tried to put into practice, but keep going. I’m having fun with this female fantasy. So this wild abandonment, right?
Laurie Watson [00:02:59]:
It’s wild abandonment. That’s exactly what we felt. And then it’s like this part that he goes on and he says, we’re going to stay in this room until basically spring comes, unless somebody needs medical help or spring comes, we’re going to stay here and we’re going to make love for a long time. And it was just like the thought of having a season of time that you don’t have to rush and you’re going to take your time and you’re going to just do it over and over, and it’s like I’m laughing again.
George Faller [00:03:30]:
Because, again, I think in most bedrooms, it’s like, you got 15 minutes. Not the message a lot of men get. It’s a season of time that we want with this, but all right, keep going with this song. This is fun.
Laurie Watson [00:03:43]:
You’re blowing apart my fantasy, man.
George Faller [00:03:45]:
Laurie Watson [00:03:47]:
No, I get it. And people don’t have time, and there’s all this realism, right? But that’s what kind of makes it so sexy. And it’s not politically correct, because you don’t want an addict. You don’t want somebody who’s out of control in general in life. And that’s what he talks about in the very beginning, that he’s out of control in general in life. But you do want somebody who’s kind of out of control with you sometimes. And I think that’s what was so exciting.
George Faller [00:04:14]:
Well, it’s out of control means you’re seizing your desire, you’re seizing your erotic energy. You’re kind of going for it, right? It’s so often what men are looking to right. They want their partner to want to have sex because they want to have sex. Men have the same version of it. Their partner initiating their partner is like wanting it for them. So, yeah, this is pretty universal, but that’s targeted, too.
Laurie Watson [00:04:36]:
It’s like they want to have sex, they’re full of sexual energy, and all of that is coming for you. That was like, yes, men want that, too, I’m sure. Like somebody who’s out of control. We talked about that, too. That’s a whole nother topic about how scary it is to initiate.
George Faller [00:04:54]:
But anyway, we can go in a lot of directions here. So this mixed message of the caveman, the wild guy, that certainly there’s an attractive element to that, but there’s also that line in the song that I think is so beautiful, where he says, just know you’re enough for me. Right. And there’s something about that line. What was that like for you ladies to hear that line?
Laurie Watson [00:05:22]:
It almost makes me tearful just hearing it. I think as women, we don’t feel like we’re enough. And I’m with women who are my girlfriends are smoking hot. They’re fit, they’re beautiful, and they too still like that line hit them. Just to be told by some man that you’re enough just as you are, is so powerful. And they said if men would say that or indicate that, they would get so much mileage out of that because you could relax and you could feel like you were who you were, how you looked, your body, everything was and I think all of us just said, wow. And it’s also a line from Bridget Jones Diary or whatever he says, I like you just as you are. It’s a similar concept.
Laurie Watson [00:06:14]:
It’s the same. Like, you don’t have to be anything but you and I really, really want you.
George Faller [00:06:21]:
And it’s good.
Laurie Watson [00:06:24]:
That just felt so good.
George Faller [00:06:25]:
I hope a lot of men and women, too, listening to this, are writing that line down. Right. Because it helps people be present. Like, you don’t have to be someone else. You don’t have to put all this stress on, like, you’re enough. I just want you. I love that. And I love seeing Laurie’s tears as her heart just longs for that.
George Faller [00:06:44]:
I mean, I think it captures longing, so right. This is all we’re really looking for. You want me, I’m enough for you. We’re just with each like, that’s the cool presence that just can let go of all the right.
Laurie Watson [00:06:58]:
Exactly, exactly. And we’re staying here till spring.
George Faller [00:07:02]:
That one sounds a little tiring to me. But hey, to each their own.
Laurie Watson [00:07:07]:
You are about efficiency. I do know that about you, George.
George Faller [00:07:13]:
As long as we can watch a movie in between and get some food, we could have some fun.
Laurie Watson [00:07:20]:
At least it wouldn’t interrupt football season because it’s like winter to spring, football will be over, so it’ll be cool. No, I think it’s that I have time for you. That’s the message. I have time for you. And we know women’s bodies just are not as efficient as male bodies most of the time. So the sense that we’re going to take our time and these girls are in second relationships and amazing relationships where they also have time. All the partners, they’re not kind of in that season of life that’s so busy with children and trying to earn your living, it’s like they’re done with all that. And so they and their partners have that sense that they can take that time.
Laurie Watson [00:08:09]:
I think most of it, they’re kind of experiencing this.
George Faller [00:08:13]:
Yeah. I mean, so many women that I work with, they get sold, maybe even unconsciously like this. If you’re willing to put the needs of others first and you run a million miles an hour and you sacrifice, it’s going to be tiring, exhausting. But what you’re going to get out of that is you’re going to be appreciated and you’re going to be loved, and you’re going to be important to people. And they do all the work of that, and yet they don’t not only don’t get the good stuff of being appreciated, they get seen as being negative and critical. And that takes its toll. So having that longing that just wants to be told, I’m enough, like, who I want is you, I mean, I think it’s just so healing. I mean, your tears just capture the heart of that longing that can get lost in the noise of all the crap in our lives.
George Faller [00:09:05]:
We’re going a million miles an hour. But at some point when you’re in the bedroom or wherever you’re at, you just want to know you’re enough for somebody else. It’s really not that much more complicated than that.
Laurie Watson [00:09:20]:
As you said that, I felt that sense of it would be being present. Right. It’s in this moment. It’s not what you got to get done, what you got to prove. It’s just being in the present with your partner in ways that are.
George Faller [00:09:38]:
I was we did that interview with Dr. Stan Tatkin, who was a guest of ours. I mean, one of the big takeaways from that conversation for me was just how many couples and partners are sleepwalking through their right. We’re so focused on what we need to do. We’re focused on the future. We’re not so present, and we’re not so present in the bedroom. That’s going to create problems. So just that line saying, you’re enough for me, it’s just such a great bringing people into the present moment.
George Faller [00:10:11]:
Laurie Watson [00:10:11]:
It is. And I imagine men would like to hear that, too.
George Faller [00:10:15]:
You’re damn right. Maybe they want to hear a little bit extra than that. Not only are you enough for me, but you’re the best for me. Right. We always want a little bit more.
Laurie Watson [00:10:27]:
You’re too much for me. You’re too much.
George Faller [00:10:30]:
I can’t handle you. Right.
Laurie Watson [00:10:34]:
Let’s come back from break and talk some more about it.
Laurie Watson [00:10:41]:
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Laurie Watson [00:13:04]:
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Laurie Watson [00:13:22]:
Okay. Gee. Morgan Wallace, the sexiest man, the sexiest song and kind of this theme, right? That is it is. And it isn’t politically incorrect. I mean, as we’ve been talking about it, we’ve been figuring out what is so exciting about it. For me and my girlfriends, I was with some of my clinicians, and I was driving two of the guys back to their cars. They’re young men, very young men. And this song came on, and I said, okay, you guys, I want you to listen to this.
Laurie Watson [00:13:57]:
I just want you to hear that as we’re talking with people about sex, there are things that, as a woman, this resonates with me. It’s never somebody I’d want to be with, but it’s so sexy. And I was just saying, as a guy, this part of the caveman, I’m like, don’t let it go. One of my guys is we call him Mr. Rogers, and he is, honest to God, the nicest, most loving, like but, you know, I didn’t say this directly to him, but it’s like but you got to keep your edge a little bit. You got to keep that part of yourself that’s still masculine. I don’t know what I’m trying to tell him, but the wild part, the part that takes as well as gives, because that’s kind of sexy to a woman, that he could take her and take what he wants, and I don’t know. I was really encouraging them.
George Faller [00:14:58]:
Yeah, I think that energy you’re trying to tap into where a guy is trying to take that’s that powerful desire that’s not going to be stopped, it’s just mobilized, and it’s passionate and strong, and it wants something. And again, a lot of men, because that can cross over a line and can lead to some bad stuff that we’ve really tried to shackle at and for good reasons. When it crosses over a line, but you’re just trying to make some space for, like, there is something healthy in that because it’s the raw expression of passion and desire. And there’s something about that when it’s in a healthy place and a woman’s kind of made to want some of that too because they’re desired so much in that space. I mean, there’s just a merger that can happen when it’s done properly.
Laurie Watson [00:15:50]:
I know in our world, and this is why I’m saying it’s politically incorrect because every woman has a right to say no. Every man has a right to say no. Nobody has to have sex when they don’t want to have sex. But we’re talking about an energy that is really exciting and I think sometimes you’re right. In our culture, men have had to water it down. Can I touch you here now? Can I touch you there now? And yeah, maybe when we’re dating and you don’t know how far you want to go or something that makes sense. Even as I say it, I’m twisted up because of I don’t want people to feel like their boundaries are crossed. But on the other hand, there’s something so powerful about that.
George Faller [00:16:38]:
Guess you’re saying it Laurie, because it was me saying that we’d have a problem. Right? If men are going to express this, people are like what’s wrong with know, misogynist? But this is coming from, know, a bunch of women getting together saying hey, we want some of this stuff. We’re just trying to make space for what is that stuff and how does it express itself in healthy ways.
Laurie Watson [00:17:01]:
Yeah. And certainly they were talking about partners who were full of that energy and how exciting it was for them to have that at this stage and maybe after partnerships that were kind of flat sexually. Just to feel that sense of really deeply, frantically, passionately being wanted is such a turn on.
George Faller [00:17:29]:
So why don’t you give us an example on what one of those encounters look like. Give the men listening a target.
Laurie Watson [00:17:37]:
One of my girlfriends talked about it was early in the relationship and they had gone for like an all day date. It hadn’t intended on being an all day date but they started talking and they got going and they went on a hike. I think they were in their neighborhood or something. Maybe it was a local hike. But they walked for like 3 hours. And then he suggests let’s go to a bar. And then the way he sits at the bar with her, it’s like they sit really close and he has his legs kind of around her as they’re seated on stools at the bar. And it’s like so masculine.
Laurie Watson [00:18:13]:
I don’t know how to say it. It’s like this masculine energy of moving in and possessing. It wasn’t like he was even touching her. It was just the way he sat straddling her kind of at the bar. Does that make sense? I don’t know if you can see it, but it was like oh wow.
George Faller [00:18:32]:
She was my friends would say it’s like pissing on your territory. A male marker saying hey, this is my lady here, so make sure everyone knows that.
Laurie Watson [00:18:42]:
Yeah, exactly. I think as women we can feel that. And it feels really good to be wanted in that way and for a man to kind of mark his territory and to say, this is mine, you’re mine. And I mean, this was early on, but she said it just like went through her body. She felt it.
George Faller [00:19:04]:
Yeah. I was working with a couple know, this is a crazy world we live in with all that’s happening in know is there involved. And she saw her husband different. Like he’s responding to the crisis in a very way that makes her feel safe. She normally sees this kind of shutting down behavior, and she kind of hates it. And it’s like she fights with him and all of a sudden she’s like, I’m seeing him in a different light. I’m seeing this strength and this calmness under pressure. And it’s like, I feel safe with him in that kind of energy.
George Faller [00:19:42]:
So it was really cool for her to make some space for seeing a different side of him, right. And then having her share that. He’s like, holy shit, it feels like she’s actually getting me. She’s on this day that made away. She has never really understood me.
Laurie Watson [00:19:57]:
Yeah, that is so great. It’s like she appreciated his mobilization of energy and protection and I think that’s part of it, right? I mean, it’s the antithesis of the song where he’s kind of out of control, but in this example, it’s like controlled power that is setting a gate and offense against you and evil and all things bad. Yeah. I think it’s why women love men in uniforms, right? It’s this sense of I see you as a protector, as having energy that’s going to you have to have that kind of energy in order to protect your country.
George Faller [00:20:42]:
I like that you’re just making some space. Hey, I mean, we’re pretty liberal when it comes to people have the right to do what they want to do in the bedroom, and we’re not here to judge it and cool for them. So we’re working with a gay couple where they both want to both be masculine. I mean, there’s so many different iterations of how this could line up, but that you’re just saying, hey, for some people out there, you’re going to like a little gagball with being tied up. For other people, they’re going to like their partner to tap into this kind of masculine energy that can really kind of take charge and go for it. I like that word, take. It’s a very strong word. It’s like, I’m not going to just be so nice and ask and be cautious and delicate and there’s a time and place for that.
George Faller [00:21:28]:
But every once in a while, I want somebody who says, I can’t stop this energy from expressing itself and I’m going to take what I want because I can’t stop myself from taking it. And when you combine that taken energy with that line of, like, you’re enough, you’re enough. Damn, you had her at hello with that one.
Laurie Watson [00:21:49]:
So true. Yeah.
George Faller [00:21:53]:
Laurie’s really speechless, but here she is. She’s speechless. She’s got the perfect integration of the man here that’s trying to take and sees just as enough, like, all in the same package. Damn, that’s some good stuff. I can see why that lasts the whole season.
Laurie Watson [00:22:11]:
I think I’m lost in my fantasy now maybe it’s a good time to quit. And I would just say to all of you out there, especially my girlfriends, you are enough. Please know that. And to men, shall we say to.
George Faller [00:22:28]:
Them as well, you’re more than enough, guys. You’re more than enough. We got to teach always a little bit. That’s a competitive thing. We could do another episode on that.
Laurie Watson [00:22:41]:
We could do like, 100 episodes on this. I think we need to. Okay, thanks for listening.
George Faller [00:22:47]:
You all keep it hot.
Laurie Watson [00:22:49]:
I would love to invite you. This is women only, but we are having a retreat in Asheville on November 10 through the twelveTH and it’s going to be a slumber party. And so we’re going to all stay together in the same cabin. It’s a beautiful space, and we’re going to have meals brought in and made, and we know who the chef is, and so it’s going to be wonderful. Maybe drink a little bit of wine, if you’d like to, and we have kind of some talks and time to work together on your sexuality. So the whole goal of this women’s sexuality retreat, the slumber party, is to basically enhance and develop yourself, your erotic self inside. So we’re going to be talking about anatomy and physiology and sexual attachment. We’re going to talk through blocks.
Laurie Watson [00:23:39]:
What stops us? What are the breaks against our sexual expression, and then what are our gas pedals? What are our turn ons? How do we open up more sexually, like, with enhanced sexual pleasure? And we’re going to talk about orgasms and roleplay and using joys and fantasies and some stuff.
Laurie Watson [00:23:56]:
And each night we’re going to have.
Laurie Watson [00:23:57]:
A pajama party where we just relax and sit around and talk on the deck and hang out together. And then on Sunday morning, we’re going to set our focus and have concrete steps toward sexual engagement with our partners.
George Faller [00:24:12]:
Sounds pretty awesome. Laurie and all the men. Don’t worry about it. Maybe we’ll have like, a Spartan camp out somewhere, have a couple of beers, and we’ll do our own version of that someday.
Laurie Watson [00:24:24]:
That would be great. So, love to invite you. I will post it on foreplaysextherapy.com under resources, and there will be the retreat, the scheduling events, and you can link and figure out if you can make it with us on November 10 through the twelveTH in Asheville. Okay, so tell us about your cutting edge training that you’re doing on success and vulnerability.
George Faller [00:24:48]:
Laurie we just keep pushing it, coming up with a new module on the playbook of a pursuer playbook of a witcher. Really practical, moment by moment moves of what a therapist can use. We’re so focused on what’s happening in session enough, there’s talk about theories and these global things. I think most therapists are looking for, what do I do in this moment? Give me a tool, George. So that’s what we’re trying to do.
Laurie Watson [00:25:14]:
That’s awesome. I am so glad you guys are doing this work. I think it helps us be organized to see you do it. You do demos, you do explanations. Teaching. It really is interactive. And I think that so many trainings that we sit through don’t give us an opportunity for that. So what you’re doing is really important.
George Faller [00:25:33]:
No, we try to emphasize, to teach it, show it, do it model of learning. You need to have some ideas. So we try to teach those and then we try to show what it looks like implementing those ideas. But most importantly, you now got to practice it. That’s how they become yours. And that’s what we want our listeners and watchers to do and become their own moves.
Laurie Watson [00:25:52]:
Find George and his email@example.com.
Joe Davis – Announcer [00:25:57]:
Call in your questions to the Foreplay Question voicemail dial eight, three three my. Foreplay. That’s eight, three, three, my, the number four play and we’ll use the questions for our mailbag episodes. All content is for entertainment purposes only and should not be considered as a substitute for therapy by a licensed clinician or as medical advice from a doctor. This podcast is copyrighted by Foreplay Media