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Laurie Watson 00:05
Welcome to foreplay radio couples in sex therapy. I’m Laurie Watson, your sex therapist.
George Faller 00:11
And I’m George Faller, couples therapist,
Laurie Watson 00:13
and we are passionate about talking about sex and helping you develop a way to talk to each other.
George Faller 00:19
Our mission is to help our audience develop a healthier relationship to sex that integrates the mind, the heart and the body.
Laurie Watson 00:28
For a great personal lubricant, please check out Uberlube.com and use the coupon FOREPLAY to support us at the podcast. Thanks. Hey,
George Faller 00:37
Laurie, exciting news. podcast. 5 million downloads. Not bad. Not bad.
Laurie Watson 00:45
Not bad. I’m so excited. We were actually number three George. couple times this week. So that guy signing on iTunes? Yeah, we’re always at least number six. But we’re getting up there. Shoot for number one.
George Faller 00:59
We would love it to my mom, Laurie? Oh, no. Really, technology that she saw. She saw, I guess one of my sisters center. I think she’s like 5 million people. I’ve listened to your 5 billion people. Are you kidding me? Like she was so happy 5 billion people. She has no idea what a download is. Just that number 5 million is pretty cool.
Laurie Watson 01:23
Does she know that it’s about sex?
George Faller 01:25
She does? She does.
Laurie Watson 01:27
Does she ever tease you about that or anything? Oh, I
George Faller 01:30
get teased all the time. A funny thing happens, you know, people tease you. And then a minute later, they wind up talking about it exactly of us. You know, we’re so deprived to have these conversations that when it seems like somebody’s comfortable. It’s like, Alright, let’s get over the awkwardness. But now let’s be a little bit curious. So I think that’s pretty cool.
Laurie Watson 01:52
That’s great. My, my parents have had different reactions to this. But my father when my book came out, he’s a fake. He was a phasic. And so that he couldn’t talk. We didn’t know exactly all the time what he could understand. But when the book came out wanting sex again, sex is in big letters. And he pointed at it. No, it’s like, he totally knew what that word was. It was just funny. But he was very supportive of at least of the writing part. I think he was a little anxious about the topic.
George Faller 02:22
Laurie Watson 02:23
Yeah. So thank you so much for your support, we would appreciate you sharing with a friend or with your sister, maybe your mother, you know that this podcast is about helping people find a way to talk about sex and have sex better and in more connected ways. So please share with your friend,
George Faller 02:42
we would be honored. And we really do hope you join us this really is it’s a it’s a mission. It’s a passion for Lauren and I to really help, you know, shift the culture make this beautiful topic easier to talk about because it just makes the world a safer place. So however, you could join us and kind of do reviews or join up patriots right as supporters of this work, but really spread the word. I mean, there is we’ve done so many podcasts now on different topics, you definitely could find something you know, that somebody is interested in, just listen to that podcast, give it a chance, let you know, let let people just confront the things that they’ve been avoiding for years. And, you know, I think if they hear it, that it sounds okay, they, it causes them to stretch their discomfort and have a little bit of success really build some positive momentum.
Laurie Watson 03:33
And I I don’t really think there are many podcasts out there that are doing what we’re doing in terms of blending attachment theory and sex therapy and, and talking just as people about real sexual stuff. I mean, a lot of it is kind of, I don’t know, glossy and for show and titillating. And I think we’re really trying to help people in just from our expertise, as well as from our hearts and our own experiences. So
George Faller 04:01
what’s so cool is this is like a grassroots, bottom up. But Mom and Pop word of mouth, maybe 5 million downloads, right? Just people talking to each other. Like we don’t have big business support, or these teams behind us or promotion. It’s just word of mouth. And that just realized it’s made that much of a difference. It’s really humbling, and I’m really, really excited.
Laurie Watson 04:24
It is. My husband asked me all the time, can you believe 5 million people have listened to you? I’m like, I know, crazy, crazy.
George Faller 04:33
Or you might just be that one person who’s downloaded a million times, but we appreciate you.
Laurie Watson 04:39
We appreciate you.
George Faller 04:42
Keep it up, please.
Laurie Watson 04:45
We’re doing our q&a today. And this comes from a gentleman who wants to help his wife move from mature sexually and I think this is something that I’ve heard quite a bit so wanted us to talk about it. I’m going to just read what he has written. Could you do a show navigating the transition from sexual disgust, to maturing views on sexuality? My significant others first exposure to a lot of sexual activities, was hearing about things, the hygiene of body fluids, oral sex, dildos and masturbation in her girls school, locker, room bathroom, and also youth churches, sermons, which kind of created this hodgepodge of primal disgust reactions. And it makes discussions with her challenging, after 10 years of marriage, I’m asking her to reconsider these perspectives, so that she doesn’t feel like the conversation is wrong, and push her into that place of feeling prudish, and feeling bad.
George Faller 05:48
Laurie Watson 05:50
It is very different growing up female than growing up male. In terms of kind of our acceptance, the parents acceptance of our sexuality. You know, I always say parents, I think are more cautious with girl children. Because of the potential for abuse, the potential for violation, I think there’s just a little more anxiety about that. And we know boys get violated too. But I think that the idea is at least a boy is going to grow up with the strength of a man to defend himself. Whereas a young woman may not have that kind of strength. And I just see a huge difference. And in the way parents react to girl children. Like when a girl child is masturbating compared to a boy child. You know, it’s like, oh, my god, she’s gonna be hyper sexual. Now. Now what? Whereas when a boy child masturbate, it’s like, Yeah, boy, no big deal, right?
George Faller 06:48
I didn’t have that response.
Laurie Watson 06:52
slapped your hand away? Hmm. I
George Faller 06:54
was told I’m gonna grow hair on my palm. So what we did is, we were we’re trying to assess people’s sexual health, and trying to evaluate, you know, all those different levels from the thinking the hearts, the spirit, the body. How said that so often, the spiritual part is all around, you know, inhibition and sin and bad and don’t do this and prudish. And you know, and there’s very little talking about the spiritual openness and curiosity and being part of something bigger than yourself. Right? So yeah, I mean, I get this guy’s frustration that says, you know, some of this early training has really shaped my partner’s view of sex in a very limited kind of duty focused, you know, serving others cut off from self and I would love for my partner to develop a more mature a healthy perspective, and like, how do you make that happen? Because every time he probably talks about it, it sounds critical, and makes her feel more pressure. So I think this again, is is is a great topic, how do we get these which roars who are loaded with guilt and shame and all these negative emotions that put the brakes on their sexuality, to get them to even look at their brakes to try to free those brakes up? So you know, that gas pedal a desire can just do its thing?
Laurie Watson 08:12
Mm hmm. I think we should go through some of these, that he mentioned, just so we can talk about what the common resistances are that women feel about this that create inhibition? I mean, you were kidding around masturbation. But one of the things about masturbation that I’ve seen in women is they often masturbate in positions that are not conducive to partnered sex. So they’re on their stomach, maybe rubbing their legs together or something. And they’re doing it in in shame, right? That way, they won’t be caught. Nobody will know what they’re doing. Maybe they’ve never touched their clitoris and so that they have a hard time translating that into partner sex. And they are filled with shame that they even do it. I don’t even ask women in the south Georgia. If they masturbate. I will ask them. So can you climax by yourself? Like I don’t even use the word masturbation? Because it’s such an inflammatory word. Like, no, I, I never have done that. I don’t do that. You know, it just makes them anxious, even as an adult saying the word out loud.
George Faller 09:24
Right. And it’s this not talking about it. That talk about my clearest can’t talk about masturbating can’t talk about this. You know, no wonder why the topic becomes so taboo and so constricted,
Laurie Watson 09:35
let alone tell my partner how I do it. How I get there. I mean, that just feels like way out there.
George Faller 09:42
So this is we talked about this in a different episode. It’s about reps. It’s about building capacity. You’re not going to go from never talking about masturbating to looking at your politis in a mirror and showing everybody and become uncomfortable with that right but how do we so how do you help women.
Laurie Watson 10:03
I love that you just said that, you know that this is like people’s fear, they’re gonna come to a sex therapist, and she’s gonna tell her to look at herself in the mirror. People always say they’re so fearful of that. So how do we get them to do that and talk about it? Yeah. But I think looking at yourself, especially as a woman or a girl, I mean, women don’t see themselves, but it’s hard to integrate your genitals, if you don’t see yourself, that’s the blessing of being a boy, right? You look at your penis, every day, you touch it every single day. You know, a girl literally may not have touched it, and she may wash herself with a washcloth. So she, you know, she’s touching herself with toilet paper, she doesn’t see her genitals. And in the bath, or in the shower, she’s using a washcloth. That’s That’s how mama taught me.
George Faller 10:53
Right? And it’s against so much shame. You know, putting in a tampon like going inside your body. I mean, it’s there’s so many these, these things that really are teaching us unconsciously that this is bad. This is dirty, this Don’t do this. Like there’s so many examples of that happening.
Laurie Watson 11:12
Right? Can you imagine putting in a tampon when you’ve never touched yourself? I mean, talk about a traumatic event, you know, and so, so tough, or asking your mother else? asking your mother, who do you ask, Are you asked how to put a tampon in your girlfriend, your mother, especially if your mother is hung up? It’s tough.
George Faller 11:42
Yeah. But again, these are the things that contribute into the lack of comfortableness with your body with seeing it showing it. So how do we start getting these withdrawals to see the value? And actually looking at these blocks these things that are not their fault, right, but there’s so much reluctance to even want to talk about it, or to head in that direction.
Laurie Watson 12:06
I mean, I would say first of all, masturbation is totally normal. It’s a good thing. It’s how most women learn to orgasm. You know, sometimes with really highly religious people where masturbation is something that they see as withholding their sexuality from their partner. I have had to call rabbis I’ve had to call bishops in the Mormon Church, I’ve had to say, look it I need this woman to learn how to orgasm. This is the way it’s a prescription. I’m not taking her away from our partner, can we can I have a special dispensation? You know, so that so that the couple can learn something and she needs to learn something about her own body? I’ve literally done that and received permission from all kinds of religious leaders that yes, we get it we understand under these circumstances, you know, sanctioned. Yeah. Okay. So let’s come back and talk more about other stuff that hang up women. George, I want to talk to you about Uber lube, they are a silicone based product. And that basically is a non reactive substance. So it doesn’t cause allergies. It doesn’t hurt, you know, somebody lubricants. George actually sting over time. You know, as women get allergic to it. And this is a neutral one, it doesn’t change your pH balance, which is really important for women and hard to think about, but I think that using a lubricant, I advise it certainly for menopausal women and for any woman, so that touches more fun. I mean, I think people should use lubricants right at the beginning of sex. Him and her I mean, I just think touching with the lubricant, it works better, right.
George Faller 13:52
Laurie? Every time I just listen to you talk about Uber lube. It makes me want to go get some so. Okay, good. This is your passions real? Yeah. And it’s from success with something you believe in?
Laurie Watson 14:03
idea. It’s something that I’ve recommended to clients forever. And I am so proud that they have chosen us to represent them. We believe.com for 10% off with the coupon foreplay. So g what’s your G spot
George Faller 14:17
as a former firefighter? Try to make the connection between sex and fire fighting. So here it is. Sex is like a fire. Hmm. It could warm you up. Well burn your house down. So Laura, you know at times I can be a bit old school. I think I’ve tried to get caught up with the modern times and hey, when you notice all what women have to do to go through the grooming plate and racks and all this stuff that seems quite painful. I figured the least I can do is give a little trim and freshen up a bit. I used you know what I was using to shave my son’s head You know, it didn’t feel so good down here. So
Laurie Watson 15:00
you totally need manscape Electric trimmer because it is so safe. And you need this. It’s like the improved lawn mower is what they call it 3.0 3.0
George Faller 15:14
where you going close to the family jewels, you better be safe and take your time.
Laurie Watson 15:19
Absolutely. And you can use this in the shower. It’s like waterproof, there’s like an LED light that you can see. And they have this motor, I guess it goes for 90 minutes. I mean, I don’t know anybody who’s gonna need it for 90 minutes, but definitely sold manscape here I come. Okay, so our listeners, they can get this for 20% off and free shipping if they go to manscape comm and use the code foreplay.
George Faller 15:49
So, again, we have our goal, Laurie, we’re trying to get these these withdrawals. In this example, a q&a, the wife who has really good reasons to have learned to be constricted around her sexuality is not seeing the opportunities to really do some of that fighting for herself. Right. So often sex is about service and giving and doing for your partner. And that’s beautiful. That’s what love does. But we really want our wake in that pot, you know, inside these these women that want it for themselves. Right? That’s why the masturbation is a healthy move, right? It’s trying to say like, how do you respond to yourself, get to know your body, see what it can do really get to kind of enjoy appreciate a firm love yourself, and that this isn’t dead, you know, this, this, this focus on yourself, it’s healthy, it’s giving you more to engage with to, to kind of bring with your partner. But that’s shift from sex being something I give to something I am part of who really you got to get these, these women to fight for themselves in a different way to really instead of hiding these parts of themselves or pushing them by side, to really see the importance that this isn’t going to change unless I take a stand for myself in a different way.
Laurie Watson 17:01
Right. And there’s a pathway to growing up into a more ironic woman than feeling hung up by maybe childhood taboos or childhood messages that said, things about your body, things about sex were bad are off limits. You know, I I was raised in the church. And I don’t ever remember any sermons or youth group discussions about dildos. Or I do actually remember discussions about oral sex, believe it or not, I remember one conversation. We were supposed to talk about how far we would go, and how far we thought it was okay to go. And it was like, I mean, I think it was kissing brass or something oral sex intercourse? Or? And, of course, you know, how are you really going to tell your leadership? What you really think? Yeah, it was, it was an interesting conversation, but we weren’t at it. And I was bad. I can just tell you I was bad.
George Faller 18:05
I listen, I just want a quick comment to that, again, everybody’s defining their, their values and what’s safe for them and what works for them, you know, for people with strong biblical values, that, you know, we certainly honor respect that, like, you know, if you feel like this is how something was designed and created, like how do you follow? How do you have sex within those guidelines, that that, that make it healthy and vibrant for both of you? I think, again, our goal is always what great sex looks like, regardless of culture, or religion, or sexual identification, right? It’s about levels of engagement. So if you’re going to do that with kind of a lots of rules around it, like, you know, how do you just get creative and have these open conversations?
Laurie Watson 18:53
Yeah, I think I think the downside to all the rules is that sometimes people in order to obey the rules turn off the sexual self and the sexual energy. I did lots of counseling. When I first began as a therapist, I did a premarital class in a big church. And so all the kids came back for sexual problems. And it was difficult because some of them in order to kind of follow the lines that they felt were important to their faith. They had literally turned off the sexual self and turning it back on in the marriage when it was supposed to be all okay, was tough. And they had heard lots of taboo messages, and they had heard you know that it was wrong to even think about these things. I was working with a couple recently and talked about using a vibrator. This guy says dildos and I would say most couples when they use vibrators use clitoral stimuli. If it’s for her, so it probably isn’t a dildo because like, we know, most women don’t have as much feeling inside the vagina as they do their clitoris. But when we were talking about it as just a fun thing to do and to bring into their sex life, then they were really young. I mean, this is what’s so funny. And they’re like, you know, we always thought that that was something that a single woman did, that she used a vibrator we never really thought about it is something to integrate in the marriage. And I said, Well, you know, 60% of all women own vibrators. And, you know, I see so many couples who successfully integrate vibrators and I mean, we just have different physiology, as many women, it helps women get aroused so much more quickly, and it can help them have an orgasm. I’m not saying that it’s necessarily a substitute for a long, slow progressive lovemaking session. But, you know, it can be fun, and, and it can help, especially when there are frequency discrepancies. He wants it more. And she’s like, I can’t get into it. It’s like, right, but now you can with a mechanism. And that’s got to be sanctioned. That’s got to be a good thing. I
George Faller 21:17
Well, I want to backtrack one second, because, again, I mean, well, I don’t want to pathologize spirituality and sex. I don’t think the church has done a great job. You know, but I think God is a huge fan of sex. We wouldn’t be here without sex. So how do we create a healthy image of what what the church is spirituality has around sex? Right that it is about most people in great sex describe it as a transcendent, spiritual feeling. Like this is a big part of it that we really want to understand. So I do think that the church has a has a big role to play in a healthy image of what sex is. And I don’t want to always just bring it up in like the taboos and a nose and a beds, right? Because there’s, there’s a flipside of that, I think that’s trying to be developed. You know, Pope, john paul wrote an amazing book on on sex is a guy never had sex, but he could talk to the spirituality of it and the health of it. And, you know, so I just want to make sure that people listen in that come from this really spiritual religious background, don’t think, you know, we’re always saying, you know, it’s wrong, how it’s being handled within the church.
Laurie Watson 22:26
Right. I agree. And I have, I wasn’t conveying that. I think that the church does do often a good job in talking about sex in marriage. But I think many people get into marriage, it’s conflicted.
George Faller 22:43
And I really appreciate Laurie, how you bring so much of a psych ed to education into these conversations, you know, especially for women that don’t have the correct information. They don’t know their body. They don’t know what works that just had the importance of reading a book, or really understanding. You know, I was shocked that, you know, most women don’t have orgasm. Without clitoral stimulation. Most men are under that assumption that it’s all about the intercourse most women I mean, just think about the setup for that. If I’m a woman, you know, getting married, I’m 21 years old, it’s the first time I’m having sex that I think it’s supposed to work that way that doesn’t work. I started thinking something’s wrong with me. Basic Education.
Laurie Watson 23:28
Yeah, women whose I say, do you have orgasms? And she’ll say, not during sex are not the real way.
George Faller 23:35
Right? And it’s just believing an assumption that’s inaccurate, and she has nowhere to go to get that, that accurate information. So certainly, that question about how do I get my partner to a mature, more mature place? Well, how does anybody grow up, we get educated, we learn, right? We kind of know more about ourselves in the world and others around us. So how do we invite women into that journey instead of shaming them into the journey? I think that really is the, you know, I want to inspire women to kind of want to do this for themselves, because life will be better not to kind of criticize them into doing it and just trying to perform better. Laurie, what do you think? How do we inspire women to want to do this work? Right, not to just make their partner happy. That’s the performance. That’s the pressure. That’s the old way, that new ways that want to do it for themselves kind of reaching into their own vitality, kind of access and parts of themselves that have been pushed aside or not developed, right to want it for themselves, not because their partner’s asking for it.
Laurie Watson 24:45
I think the message is that we have to grow the erotic self. And that is not something that most of us understood. You know, we thought sex was something that would to happen naturally and be good, I think especially kids who grow up in the church, and I’ve heard a lot of the parameters around it, there’s a promise on the other side, which is if you follow this path, you’re going to be blessed by God with great sex. And, and the problem is, is great sex has to be developed and, and putting yourself into that with education and learning. I mean, I, I’ve talked to so many people who have never read a sex book. Have you read sex toys? Now, George,
George Faller 25:35
we might have to do a separate podcast. But it was really shocking for me to recognize how important the erotic mind is for women. I think a lot of times for men, it’s visual, it’s driven by testosterone, it’s less important to kind of what my brains thinking.
Laurie Watson 25:51
Right? But well, your brain thinks your brain thinks sexual thoughts because of testosterone. You’re not cultivating that.
George Faller 26:00
You know, but how they how do women develop their erotic mind? Like what does that even look like during sex? What what are women thinking about as they’re playing these erotic tapes?
Laurie Watson 26:12
You know, I think that women have to have some sort of fantasy in their mind. And it doesn’t have to be when I say fantasy, it can be of, you know, later that night with your partner. But their mind has to engage sexually, because just relying on sensation, it’s like, something doesn’t click over. I mean, I often say, you know, you could use a vibrator for 45 minutes, and nothing would happen if you didn’t allow your mind to do something with that, to think about a sexual moment. So I think First, you have to see that my brain needs to be engaged. I think second, is body acceptance. You know, both in terms of Yeah,
George Faller 26:58
I highlight that before you move on to the class, I would love to do an episode on the secrets of a woman’s erotic mind. I think most men are clueless about what’s going on there. Right? So just to kind of help bridge some of that distance, right. So you don’t have to be so alone in your mind. Like what is happening there? I think men would be really interested. And I think a lot of women think they’re the only one doing this. So I think that could be really helpful or,
Laurie Watson 27:26
And wouldn’t it be lovely if she could share those things to clue him into what she likes and, and what to do what they could co create together?
George Faller 27:37
I’m almost thinking like a Star Wars movie, there was like a plug, I could just kind of get in there and like to see what’s going on inside there. But yes, if we could, that would that would really, really be helpful.
Laurie Watson 27:48
If only If only you could I say that about emotional withdrawals. Like I wish I could just pull the ticker tape out of his head, you know, so I could really see what he was thinking. And I’m sure for men, the sexual withdrawing partner, right, he wants to see what she’s really thinking about. So you know, mostly because he wants to make her happy. wants to act that out. Okay, acceptance of the body part, too. You know, she needs to accept that she has different bodily fluids that sex has smells and tastes. I mean, sex is its own thing. There’s got to be some comfort with that. When we did that episode on menstruation and periods and all that favorite towel? Yeah, well, we
George Faller 28:33
were scratching the surface here. But this is a deep topic. You know, and, and, and women who are a bit shut down have good reasons because they’ve been trained that way. And like any training, if you want to do it differently, you you’ve got to work out those muscles, you got to come up with a plan with new moves. So, you know, we’re just encouraging partners out there that are struggling for good reasons. You know, find what it takes. Read a book, talk to somebody, get to know your body better. Develop your erotic mind, come up with a plan, there are things that you definitely can do. That increases your pleasure, your levels of engagement, just your overall enjoyment around sex.
Laurie Watson 29:14
Thanks for listening to foreplay radio,
George Faller 29:18
keep it hot.
calling your questions to the foreplay question, voicemail dial 833. My foreplay, that’s a 334-PLAY and we’ll use the questions for our mailbag episodes. All content is for entertainment purposes only and should not be considered as a substitute for therapy by a licensed clinician or as medical advice from a doctor. This podcast is copyrighted by Foreplay Media