Show Transcript for Episode 66: Postpartum Issues

Laurie Watson 00:09
Hello again and welcome to foreplay radio sex therapy. I’m your host certified sex therapist Laurie Watson, author of wanting sex again and blogger at Psychology Today and Web MD. And I have with me Dr. Adam Mathews my co host, who’s a couples therapist, psychotherapist and president of NCAA MFT foreplay is dedicated to helping couples keep it hot. Each episode we cover an aspect of sex that impacts your sex life and something that you can relate to. So if you find our discussions helpful, please give us a review on iTunes or Stitcher we would love it if you would tell a friend about us. You can find us on the web at foreplayrst.com, and if you have a comment or a topic that you’d like us to talk about, we’d love to hear from you. Please send them to us at info at foreplay rst.com Thanks for listening now on to today’s topic. Okay, today’s Episode we’ve got another mailbag. And this is a complicated one with lots of different parts.

Adam Mathews 01:04
Right, Adam, lots of different parts. So that’s good. We got lots of different parts. We like complicated, complicated, right? And we’ll try to break it down as it will try to break it down as best we can. There are several elements of this. So we’ll read the whole thing. And then we’ll kind of break it down and talk about each each section as we go. Okay. So, listener writes in me and my husband after an extended postpartum law and disagreements about birth control methods, finally had sex again, unknowingly, we use many of the tips mentioned in the podcast way to go to minimize the awkward awkwardness. So we’ve had sex a few more times, mostly on my part to just do it and hope the feelings will follow. I’m struggling immensely because during the law, my husband turned to pornography rather than trying to maintain connection with me. I don’t know how to just get over that. He seems happy now that we were having sex again, but I’m still hurting can’t get past it. Do you have any suggestions for how to address this So I think the first part maybe, let’s, let’s talk about the postpartum lull, which is such a common thing. We talked about it a lot, but just remind everybody, what are we talking about when we talk about that postpartum lull? What are the things we’re watching to try to come out of it?

Laurie Watson 02:16
Sure. Well, there’s several things right? physiologically, the woman is experiencing a hormone called prolactin, which is the milk producing hormone. And it literally physiologically lowers her desire. And it also makes her vaginal tissue drier. Then there’s the technical recovery from the birth even susteren or vaginal birth. Because of prolactin, you know, her tissue is going to be different. So that’s present even as a Syrian birth. So, six weeks after birth, it will still actually hurt her, you know, so that’s problematic. And then there’s often if there’s been a vaginal birth, there’s just recovery from the birth trauma and they say usually six weeks, but for some women, it’s longer and then we’re talking about it. exhaustion, sleeplessness, tiredness. Certainly on her part, you know nursing a baby and the

Adam Mathews 03:07
new human that you’re the new human.

Laurie Watson 03:10
And the baby that is up, you know, all night, every night several times a night, I mean exhaustion. I cannot overstate how incredibly detrimental that is to sex. I would say if there’s any way you know, you can store a bottle and get six hours of sleep six hours will make you human

Adam Mathews 03:31
sounds so luxurious six hours.

Laurie Watson 03:36
Six hours really, you know, you’re barely human, honestly, and most women are not going to be feel sexual. Yeah, unless they’re getting about six to seven hours of night and I hate to say that, but that is the truth. Yeah, I mean tiredness and a woman kills it in terms of her libido.

Adam Mathews 03:51
Yeah, and I think one with this couple when you’re talking about all of those reasons they, they need to kind of know like, this is an extended post. As part of law, what kept the after the initial six weeks? What kept the law going? Yeah, which of all of those things that you talked about, was playing a part in keeping the law progressing? Why did I go back to sex?

Laurie Watson 04:14
I think what you said is really the most important thing, not what I said. You said, you know, it’s the new human that you’ve got. And there’s kind of a falling in love period, often from the woman with the baby fathers are often very excluded, which you know, not it’s biological right? She had the baby most of the time and we know there’s lots of ways to have babies but you know, oftentimes she carried the baby and, and there is this wonderful part of falling in love with your baby and sometimes you don’t need as much physical love from your partner because you’re getting so much physical love touching the baby nursing the baby, loving on the baby, it’s like you get touched up. Yeah, you know, all the time. And, and I do I tell my sons, and I know this is hard. But I tell my son’s think about being arms around the mother baby for about two years now, I don’t want anybody to wait two years to have sex. But in some ways, it’s true that oftentimes the father or the father person, you know, is a supportive role and not the main actors. And so it can be difficult. And I would say to my daughters, you know, you have to remember that being the supporting actor is not so fun. Everybody likes a little Limelight, and everybody wants to be the center of attention. And you have to get out and you have to leave the baby behind and you have to make time. And I think if your partner’s love language is sex, you know, you got to find a way to get back into the sexual relationship.

Adam Mathews 05:46
I think that I think what you’re talking about the overarching thing is just an adjustment, the adjustment period that comes from having a baby and including them all over again, and finding a new new way to be as a couple that you know, you said you can’t over State how the exhaustion I think you can also not overstate how big of a shift it is in your relationship. I think a lot of couples think that they’re just going to go right back into the way things were, or they underestimate the shift. They know things are gonna be different. But and sometimes I’ve had couples, you know, before they’ve had their first baby in my office who keep telling me Oh, we know, it’s gonna be different. We know it’s gonna be different. And I kept saying, Yeah, but you don’t

Laurie Watson 06:31
really know. But you don’t.

Adam Mathews 06:32
You really don’t know how big that shift is until it’s happened to you. And so your sex life is a component of that you’re not just going to go on having sex the same way anymore. That doesn’t mean it can’t be good. That doesn’t mean it can’t be great. But it’s going to be different after baby especially while that child is still super dependent on you, specifically on the on the mom during that period, that two year period that you’re talking about. You know, it’s it’s going to be different. So you Gotta be able to get mentally get around that. I think both mom and dad have to get around that as well. Like, Dad has to adjust to mom’s attention away mom has to adjust to maybe be making a little more effort to turn back toward toward husband.

Laurie Watson 07:13
Yeah. So I mean, my first baby, I remember my first baby is now very old, and a Licensed Marriage Family Therapist now, which is so cool. But you know, when he was born, I remember these long leisurely dinners that I used to have with my husband, we’d have a glass of wine, and we’d sit and talk for, you know, a good hour, just him and I, this was before computers and phones, you know, back in the good old days when you actually talk to each other. And the baby would always cry. Like, as soon as we sat down together, it was like they smelled the food or something, I’d put him down for dinner, we’d have a late dinner, and invariably, the baby would cry and we I really started to feel the absence of connection with my husband. And for me, you know, libido was not Have an issue. I wanted sex. But it was really a feeling of I don’t know you anymore. I don’t have time to know you anymore. And that hurt. Yeah, that was difficult. And I knew he was trying and I was trying. But the reality was there was a disconnect just just based on circumstance.

Adam Mathews 08:17
Yeah. And so you have to know that and you have to make adjustments there. And so for this couple wanting to know, what the law was about, and what needs to be, maybe what needs to be either rethought there readjusted there, or maybe even repaired if there was, if there was hurt that’s going on.

Laurie Watson 08:33
One last thought, Adam is, I think that sometimes people who experience a sexual law or a crack in their foundation when they have children is those beginning cracks were present before children, but they were able to ignore them because they had enough resource, absolute energy that they didn’t have to deal with certain things. But once the children come in, we don’t need to just blame the baby. No, there’s oftentimes something between us or inside of us are from our history that needs healing and resolving and, and it just is it comes out when you have children.

Adam Mathews 09:07
Yeah, it’s kind of like you’ve been able to kind of sweep that under the rug, but the child, the child comes in and just exposes all of it. Right? Yeah, it exposes everything that’s maybe being hidden. So yeah. So that may have to be explored. I want to get your thoughts on this one, the second component of this, which is their disagreement over birth control methods, right. Now, what is that about? I don’t know, but they don’t give a lot of information about this. But what I would guess is, he does not want to use condoms would be my guess, is that I think that’s common for most men. And she probably doesn’t want to use something else as one of the other options that would be dependent on her, which are going to be way more invasive.

Laurie Watson 09:47
Potentially, she’s nursing, and she doesn’t want to start birth control pills because she’s worried about the hormonal influence on the baby, which there is you know, it’s low but potentially and you They don’t necessarily want to rely on prolactin, which often does cause the woman’s periods to stop. But then there’s always the chance of what happens if you hit it when her periods about to start, like you don’t know. Yep, you know, it can be a great birth control. Nursing can be a great birth control method. But the problem is, it’s not right. Never know when it’s going to start. Or maybe it was like, maybe she wanted him to get a vasectomy, maybe you know, what was a good baby and done or something. And I would also say that condoms sometimes hurt women, you know, especially if you have a dry vagina after nursing a baby. That might not be it. I don’t know what she wanted him to do. You know, it could have been she wanted him to withdraw, and they were going to use that kind of method. And he wasn’t up for that. I mean, there. There’s a debate. We don’t know. But I mean, I think when people are arguing about birth control, it’s a power struggle. I mean, to me, it rather than Hey, let’s have pleasure. Let’s at least masturbate each other, you know, bring each other to orgasm right? We can do that, you know, they’re not doing that they’re they’re struggling in some way that says, You know, I want you to do that. No, I want you to do that and so i don’t know i i think it’s probably a bigger debate than birth control because we could figure it out right? Are you are you making it out?

Adam Mathews 11:18
But you’re being you’re being way more gentle. You’re being way more gracious than I say what I would say suck it up, brother. Suck it up. Like you they kind of did not have you did not push that baby out of your vagina. She’s

Laurie Watson 11:32
been carrying a baby for nine. Adam, you are good.

Adam Mathews 11:37
I know. Listen, I understand it. I get it. Yeah, like that. It is not it is not enjoyable, as much. Not as pleasurable to use a condom, right? But I think if it’s a

Laurie Watson 11:53
better combo, you know oral sex and a condom. So like he gets to feel something that is what is slippery sorry we so graphic guys, you know and are maybe we should be more graphic people write in and say we should be more graphic Okay, you know or and then he has a condom when he actually has intercourse I mean

Adam Mathews 12:11
yeah be great I think that there’s options but I think that if this is one of the central if it is about birth control and I think you make a good point that it may not really be about birth. This is a parish it’s a power struggle it’s been going on for a while, but I think one of the things if it is if this is the debate that is that is central to their relationship. Then one of the things is either he goes out and has a vasectomy right if they’re done having kids

Laurie Watson 12:38
which is really easy guys

Adam Mathews 12:39
do not give me It’s March Madness it all go

Laurie Watson 12:45
by Facebook Yeah, but it is common. Please join our Facebook’s to what what is your Facebook?

Adam Mathews 12:50
Right your Twitter. My Twitter is mad Matthews council My Facebook is Matthew’s counseling.

Laurie Watson 12:55
Yeah, yeah, and mine is Laurie Watson couples therapist and hey, I’m on We’re we Adam. We are Instagram, right? Instagram. It’s for play radio sex therapy and we would love it. We have, like 13,000 notes or Yeah, I think that 13,000 hours. That’s I don’t know, maybe maybe it’s crazy, but we we do pretty little pictures and sexual things, please follow us there. But I did say that about March Madness and the vasectomies. Yeah. And then it goes to

Adam Mathews 13:23
Facebook. They go, it goes up and March Madness. So it’s a good time. Yeah. But I think this is a thing that I think

Laurie Watson 13:31
people know what we’re talking about is men schedule their vasectomies during March during basketball season everybody does it. Yeah. So that they like can recoup and watch the watch the game.

Adam Mathews 13:41
Yeah, you get a built in reason to watch getting there.

Laurie Watson 13:43
Yeah,

Adam Mathews 13:44
but I think I’m being hard on this guy because I think that it is a simple thing that they have an argument that he can avoid, that is going to end up it’s an it’s a small investment, that’s going to go a long way. With his wife and i think then it’s respectful of the stuff that all the physical changes all the physical turmoil of the pregnancy that is taking on her and the turmoil that a lot of female birth control takes on women’s bodies body and so like he is she’s

Laurie Watson 14:22
already hormonal, yeah want to put more hormones in her body here and not like don’t do that to her trust me. She’s recovered from the birth and get her hormones normal just to be like mood regulate anyone and you

Adam Mathews 14:34
want her to turn back towards you. You’ve got to be willing to do something that is and this is this is just a way I think sharing the

Laurie Watson 14:42
burden I was gonna do this show sharing the burden she just carried a baby for nine months which is probably worse than that baby Yep, yeah, sorry dudes. Yeah, okay, okay. Okay, second last part. I would we need to take break let’s take a break. This is foreplay radio sex therapy with sex therapists Laurie Watson and couples therapist Dr. Adams. match and we’ll be right back with our mailbag.

15:11
Wanting sex again, how to rediscover desire and heal a sexless marriage by certified sex therapist, Laurie Watson.

Laurie Watson 15:19
Each chapter is designed to fix one of the problems that caused low libido from early marriage through the childbearing years, even all the way through menopause. I’ve also had men read it and tell me that for them, it was the most helpful thing they read about resolving sexual problems.

15:33
Look for watching sex again on amazon.com. You can also talk to Laurie Watson for therapy in person or via Skype.

Laurie Watson 15:41
I offer couples counseling and sex therapy and I think about both aspects of the relationship emotional intimacy and sexual technique and that combination together helps marriages be happy

15:53
weekend couples intensives are also offered. Improve your sex and improve your relationship with old wakening center for couples and intimacy. Find out more at awaken loving sex calm, awaken what’s possible.

Adam Mathews 16:08
It is one of my great joys in life to be able to really help individuals and couples find strength in their relationships and really find hope again

16:18
Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist Dr. Adam Mathews for

Adam Mathews 16:22
Matthews counseling. I work with a wide variety of issues including depression and anxiety, marital issues, issues with adolescence. I believe that therapy should be designed around you that it should be personalized to who you are and to your unique situation.

16:38
Therapy is available in Office Online and by phone.

Adam Mathews 16:42
I want therapy to be comfortable for everyone at our office, you’ll find that we sit around a fireplace and deep, comfortable chairs, look at the problem differently and offer practical solutions for you to take home and utilize outside of the therapy room

16:56
scheduled today and rediscover hope

Adam Mathews 16:59
you can find Meet on the web at Matthews counseling dotnet Matthews with one t you can contact us through email or phone and find a lot of resources on our website Matthews counseling dotnet

Laurie Watson 17:21
Okay, welcome back to foreplay radio sex therapy with your sex therapist Laurie Watson and couples therapist, Dr. Adam Mathews. We’re doing a mailbag episode. That’s pretty complex. And we’ve talked about a couple who had a pregnancies sexual law followed by a debate over what type of birth control and now what have you got add on.

Adam Mathews 17:42
The other part that she says that I’m interested in Laurie is she says that and I think maybe after listening to us on the podcast, she said that she’s on her part she’s mostly just doing it and hoping that the feelings will follow. So her it sounds like her libido may be low low right? For her relationship for her husband, she’s still having sex and hoping that the more sex she has that the feelings are going to follow from that. So what does that what does that tell you? What do we know about that?

Laurie Watson 18:10
Okay, so first of all, just doing it, maybe she’s coming to the moment, right? without necessarily desire at the beginning. But my hope is once she starts doing it, that she feels aroused desire kicks in, she’s glad she’s done it and she has an orgasm. I mean, if any woman needs to orgasm, this woman needs it and she needs it regularly. That means she needs a lot of patience from our partner. Because having had a baby prolactin in your system, you know really depresses libido, you don’t have that natural hunger. And women don’t have as much of it anyway as men do. And so, exhaustion, prolactin, these are problems. My hope is that once she gets started, she gets into it and that’s if if Man, I would make certain of that, you know, I would really think about what has she told me? makes it good for her. You know? Is it time of day? Is it after a time of connection? Is it can I take her away to a hotel? Just for an afternoon? I mean, trust me that’s worth the price the hotel spending the night is not the whole thing but get her away from baby. So she’s out of mommy mode. You know, maybe a drink it’s okay to drink a little bit when you are nursing. I’m not a doctor but you know what doctors say? Right especially you know if you’ve been crazy with screaming baby all day long. So yeah, she’s probably not feeling in the beginning much desire and and is depressing is that as to men and as depressing as that is to women. It comes back. Yeah. So I mean, this is a tough season. doing it because you love your partner, as long as you can wrap your arms and legs around your partner and feel warm and feel good about it and feel close together. That’s fine. That’s fine. That is love. That’s not that’s not duty sex. That’s loving sex. Yeah, you know, I mean, especially when you realize I feel closer, he feels closer, we feel closer. Do you know there’s a study, I just read it. And it’s recently that women really, really, really liked sexual intercourse. And they like it sometimes without orgasm, which I think is incomprehensible to men. But by and large for her desire to be sustained over time, we want this woman to have an orgasm. It’s her call. I mean, she may just be too tired. And she may say, let’s just do it. I want to make love to you. And I think you should honor that if you’re her partner and say, Okay, let’s

Adam Mathews 20:40
do it. Yeah. And I think, you know, there’s a lot riding on him right now. And I think that he, what you’re saying is was requires her to talk to him and tell him what she needs in that, but the fact that she’s turning towards him means that he needs to turn toward her and continue to watch Love, the word you said was patience. And I think that’s that’s patience over time. But that’s also patience in the moment as well, right? I mean, he’s got to go slow. He’s got to listen to what she needs. He’s got to have time where he does just hold her without any expectation that there that there’s going to be sex that my guess is with this couple, that there’s probably no physical contact until they want to have sex. That’s that’s the step. Why, right? I don’t know that that that seems to hold true with people, because they’re not having intercourse. They also stop holding each other, they stop any kind of physical, making out, like any kind of physical play at all they stop just because they’re not having intercourse. And so there’s, they get in as well.

Laurie Watson 21:45
I mean, she thinks that if I let it go this way, you know, he’s gonna want sex. And so she cuts it off early. And so they’re not sexual as a couple right, with that kind of as a backdrop for times of lovemaking.

Adam Mathews 21:59
Yeah, the I had somebody say this a couple weeks ago, that the fear that if she says yes wants that she’s gonna have to say yes, every single time. Right, you know. So then they both stop connecting that way he stops even trying, she stops as well. She stops accepting any kind of physical advances. So there’s nothing physical that’s happening with him. So he may have to

Laurie Watson 22:19
up the affection. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, touch her hair. You know, squeeze your shoulder hugger? No, kiss her Hello, and goodbye. I mean, you know, really up the affection and if you get aroused, that’s okay. You walk away a couple of times when you’re aroused, and she knows it. And I mean, let her know that that’s a natural response. It doesn’t necessarily mean you have to have sex that time, you know, especially right now, while she her appetite may be lower. But But I would say, hang tough.

Adam Mathews 22:50
Yeah, you know, this is a season. People get through this well, and if she can lean into it more. My guess is that if she is fearful That every time is going to lead to sex that she bristles just a little bit when he touches her. I know, right or she, she unconsciously pulls away. Right? Right. And women do and so the woman I think a lot of times is fearful of saying no, they fearful they’re gonna they say no all the time. Yes. And I think one of the things that, would you agree with that?

Laurie Watson 23:20
I realized you say women say no all the time. And I said, Yes.

Adam Mathews 23:24
Well, I mean, I’ve had a lot of couples where the woman is doesn’t want to hurt him. And so hurt his feelings. She doesn’t want to hurt his feelings and so it’s back then she doesn’t let it get started. Yes. And so we get back to the sexual bids where she just ignores his sexual bids. Yes. Right. Rather than saying, honey, I would love to just just hold each other tonight but I’m not I’m not feeling I’m not afraid. I’m not for sex. Which is so much better than just completely ignoring what’s happening

Laurie Watson 23:53
being a starfish on Yeah, now like just laying there and not getting into Yeah, yeah, yeah. That solace.

Adam Mathews 24:02
So leaning into that, I think leaning into the physical affection, being patient with each other, I think is gonna, is going to go a long way. Right. One of the last parts is, I think probably the hardest, because he’s mentioning that during the law that he went to pornography, which is a turn away in this case from each other, and that she’s having a hard time getting over that because she saw it as a disconnection from her.

Laurie Watson 24:25
Right. Right. And I mean, one thing I would want to ask her, though, is, you know, to examine her heart, you know, did she also disconnect by not being involved sexually? I mean, oftentimes, that’s a two party gig. I mean, pornography is a complicated subject, right? And whether it’s right wrong or indifferent, or how people feel about it, we’re talking about the way it’s used right here. And you’ve said, he turned away from her, or at least she experienced it. Yes, as him turning away from her preferring this other method and my question is because I know couples and she just said she was just pregnant that, you know, potentially she turned away first from the sexual relationship and so he was resorting to, you know, I gotta make myself happy. I got to relieve myself sexually and you don’t want me. So this is, you know, this is only a substitute. Yeah, but then she finds out she feels threatened, she feels anxious and it’s, you know, problematic for her. I mean, first of all, I think they need to start by talking about what it means. You know, what is it mean? When you look at porn? Does it mean you prefer those other women? Are you just doing it because we’re not doing it? And you know, you have to release it does it? You know, are you now so interested in porn that you’re not initiating with me could mean that right? Yeah, absolutely. Now he’s like, okay, I’ve given up on the negotiation. And to me, if you’ve given up on the negotiation, and you’re using porn, that’s the problem.

Adam Mathews 25:58
Yeah. I just see it. As a I like that you’re balancing it out on each side that it probably was a turn away. That probably the first time that she realized that he was using it was not when she should have been taught they should have been talking about it a lot sooner. Right. Right. And a lot sooner what what was happening at this point I do, I would wonder how much of a break of trust it is for her. If that’s what she sounded like, is she saying is a hard thing to get over? I think for a lot of people that feel it does feel like a I don’t want to say it’s the it’s not exactly the same as going outside of the marriage or in an emotional or physical affair. It’s I don’t think it’s the same thing, but

Laurie Watson 26:39
some people I agree. Do you think that other people It means nothing of the sort?

Adam Mathews 26:43
Right, but what what I’m saying is it sounds like is it still good for her to break a trust?

Laurie Watson 26:48
Yeah, there’s something about this that she says this is outside what I feel comfortable with and agreed to. You’re looking at naked women and that’s outside of my comfort zone. However, I think I think this, that becomes a right wrong paradigm. And very seldom are relational problems able to be categorized as right and wrong. You know, there’s usually a dynamic Sure, in terms of, you know, what I was feeling and what you were feeling and why did this and even in affairs, I mean, I think affairs are wrong. Right. But I understand people have them for complicated reasons. And I think that if you’re going to resolve them, you have to be a little more complex. And it’s like, You’re bad because you did this maybe well, you know, where were we at? How was there a vacuum between us and how do we get back to each other? We certainly don’t get back to each other by me beating you up for being so bad.

Adam Mathews 27:45
No, absolutely not. And I absolutely agree with that. I think the the thing that I would want him to understand about her is the feeling that she has regarding whatever the feeling is regarding the pornography. Like that has to be That has to be okay. And he has to be attuned to that, to that feeling, if it is if it is, if it’s a break of trust, or if it’s just a feeling of disconnection, or if it’s a feeling of threat Gera, yeah, or I just don’t like that. That’s just not something that I’m, that I’m comfortable with whatever the feeling is that she’s has, I think he has to be attuned to it, and begin for them to turn back toward each other. He’s got to be able to say, I’m sorry, I hurt you in whatever way that that that that was a hurt and I think she has to be clear about that. And do what you’re saying is saying I should have come and talk to you sooner. Maybe my part was just withdrawing into the baby and into all the all the things that go with that. Right. But I think that that whatever role the pornography played for her in the hurt, they have to address that for her to be able to begin to feel like she’s not just doing it like she’s more like she wants to, to move past that point for them.

Laurie Watson 28:54
Yeah. Okay, so let’s just even this out. We’ve got four issues at stake for this. mailbag writer who says the first one is she experienced as a sexual lol and we think, you know, regardless of the difficulties, you need to aim for a renewed sexual relationship because that keeps the couple ship thriving. Talk to your doctor, especially if you’re a woman about getting vaginal estrogen before you have your first sexual intercourse experience again, that will make it more comfortable. And then she had they were arguing over birth control, right? Mm hmm.

Adam Mathews 29:28
Yeah. And I think one of the big tips is one see, is it really about is it really about birth control? Is it really about that particular argument? If it is, you know, guys got to suck it up there especially right after right after a pregnancy and see if you can either keep start using condoms, add in some other things. So sexual be more pleasurable for you. Or just go get a vasectomy? Watch a bunch of basketball.

Laurie Watson 29:54
That’s right. That’s right. And she was also experiencing low libido, right? Just not as intense It, you know, lots of reasons for that that pass, you know that being entranced with your baby. There’s exhaustion the prolactin in your system. These things pass, try to see if you can say yes, and start or say yes, I’m willing to start and see how it goes and hope that your arousal kicks in and then you feel desired to finish and to do it. Yeah. So

Adam Mathews 30:26
and then finally, they were talking about what the pornography that happened that he turned to during their sexual law. And both parties have to kind of see what their role is in that and what their feelings are around around the pornography and kind of what function was it serving in their relationship and turn back toward each other and begin to talk about that and acknowledge each other’s feelings about that as they as they move closer together?

Laurie Watson 30:51
Yeah. So thank you. You’re listening to foreplay radio sex therapy with your sex therapist Laurie Watson and couples therapist Dr. Adam Mathews Follow us on Instagram for play radio sex therapy. Hey, help us stay on top here at foreplay. love it if you would subscribe and share it with your friends. And please take one sec and rate and review us. Thanks so much